Topic: Total Power Exchange (10-25-2020)

 Koffee Klatch: 10-25-2020

Topic:  Total Power Exchange

[08:07] Vanni Cannoli: Welcome to Koffee Klatch, our Sunday morning kinky equivalent of a knitting circle

[08:08] Vanni Cannoli: Our discussions are in text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or your Q.  If a person has a question for a specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"

[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: Now last week we talked about "Consensual Non-Consent," what it means and how it's practiced.

[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: This week we move to what some see as the final realization of CNC, or the "Total Power Exchange", usually shortened to TPE

[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: You might also hear this referred to as "living 24/7"

[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: With the basic idea being that the D/s couple has come into a agreement of the Dominant having total control over the submissive -- with the important proviso -- in the areas that are agreed upon.

[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: So for example, unless there were an agreement that the Dominant had control over the submissive's work life, the Dominant could not say "quit your job"

[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: However, in all areas that are agreed upon, the submissive agrees to give up control.  They indeed have allowed the Dominant "Consensual Non Consent" over those areas.

[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: As an example, a few years ago I went to a presentation at a local BDSM expo on the 50's role play and power exchange.

[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: I am sure that many of you know that Master Jamesen and his girl Rhonda live out this kind of RP/TPE

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: Anyway, the girl giving the talk is definitely in a TPE with her Master.  She doesn't work, she minds the house, and she is not allowed to even buy a tube of lipstick for herself minus permission.

[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: That said, she can shop for the house minus direct permission of what to buy (he trusts her to make the right decisions)

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: so they have a lot of areas where she lives in a total power exchange to him.

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: So now that I've said all this, do Y/you live, or have tried to live, in this form of exchange?

[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: Does it work well?  What are plusses and minuses?

[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: ok Sir RB has a questions so let's go to Him first

[08:18] RB Quinn: Does it have to be 24/7, Vanni?  Could not the TPE be something the couple agrees to be 'in' for only some certain times or situations or days? And while I have the floor, I have not tried TPE *smiles* #

[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: I think what the idea of 24/7 means that they live in the lifestyle all the time, even when the very specific areas that the submissive has given totally to their Dominant might be "out time"...like when my friend I talk about goes to work at the Starbucks.  She doesn't have to call for permission to make a frap, for example.  lol

[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: does anyone else have a comment to Sir RB's question?  Just go ahead and say your answer, no need for a "c"

[08:20] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: Me and my Daddy  live  the TPE  in  rl  and it works well for us  some of the things that it includes is asking  to  go out of the house  asking to have  sweets   when he is aat  work  making shure that i do my stuff i have to do during the day   when i am with  him  it is more  interactive  as  such asking to use the restroom if i want  food  or to  do  somthing   ect  ... done

[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: was that your comment?

[08:20] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: nods

[08:21] Vic: I have been in TPE twice in my life rl and sl and I can say that TPE has no conditions, timeline or otherwise, it is control over any aspect of my life at any time.  There is no more negotiating at this point. #

[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: thank you for that Kinsley

[08:22] Griff Crowe: For me, at least in Vic and I's dynamic, we do have TPE, and it is 24/7. But it doesn;t have to be a 24/7 use, if that makes sense. It really comes down to the fct that She has given me total control over whatever I wish to influence, whene I wish to influence. Even limits. I could cross that line, should I choice, though that would be a poor choice on my part, as it would most likely trigger her one right, the right to leave. So the control is at any time, though I may not wish to excersice that control at all times. make sense I hope? #

[08:22] Vanni Cannoli: I think, Sir RB, that it is really up to the people involved in the TPE

[08:22] RB Quinn: ok, ,ty, Vanni

[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: When I said "no c is necessary" I really meant if anyone wanted to answer Sir RB's question

[08:23] RB Quinn: it depends on the meaning of 'total', but please go on

[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: so if everyone will please wait until I get to Y/you, thanks!

[08:24] Vic: if I may add as well, if there was a timeline involved IMHO it is partial power exchange, not total....#  (done for real now lol)

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks!

[08:25] Vanni Cannoli: Kinsley, did you say what you wanted to say, you have another C here

[08:26] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: I beleave that it dont nessagary have to be  24/7  but    whiles in together  works just was well  if that makes sence i have know Masters that  have married  subs   and that they only have the the control   when they are together

[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: Right, certainly TPE is not everyone's cup of tea.  IN fact, in my RL kinky experience, this is the far and away exception rather than the rule

[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: Most people like to go to the club, get their S/M freak on, and then go home to "normal" life

[08:28] Vanni Cannoli: I mean I like hitting people, but I don't want them around all the time.  And I"m already the slave of three cats, I don't need a real life Master or Mistress, it would be redundent

[08:29] Vanni Cannoli: Ok Sir Whyiman, you have a comment, please

[08:32] Whyiman: yes its just a thought going back to the individual who could not buy a lipstick without permission. From apersonal point of view i think that leve of control could present problems..having to think and approve of every need of my sub when she is perectly cpapable of looking after her own personal need. It is in mho just a case of over control or micromanagement

[08:33] Vanni Cannoli nods

[08:33] Becky Summerland: it does require a lot of active domination

[08:33] Vanni Cannoli: It can certainly appear as that to outsiders, Sir.  But she really liked giving over that level of control to her Master.

[08:33] Vanni Cannoli: So it always comes back to "Your Kink is OK, it's Just not My Kink"

[08:34] Vanni Cannoli: go ahead kinsley

[08:35] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: Well  as i have been  in that typer of   contorl  with my Daddy at times  i do  see that  point of it it isnt  for everyone  and i know mulpile peole that  live the sma  lifestyle  with tht totol power exchange  i   ask for permsison to  buy anything  and it owrks for us  cuse that way i am not  spending  my money on stuff i dont  need  ect   but i can  see ware it cna   be  bit hard if your not with ur sub  alot  ok  done

[08:36] Vanni Cannoli: Actually there are some subs that get into the whole concept of "financial domination" becuase they don't know how to deal with money, and that gives them accountability.  That said, great care and trust has to be there before anything like that is done.

[08:36] Vanni Cannoli: thanks!

[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: and thank You Sir Whyiman!

[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: ok Rouge, you are up!

[08:37] яøυɢє: thank you Vanni. I can honestly say, that I live the lifestyle 24/7. ever since my rl Master claimed me as His own, and placed the collar about my neck, I have surrendered all control to Him. be it general day to day activities, to how I deal with finances etc. even when was able to work, and having issues, He would always guide me to the best way to deal.

if anything, it makes my life a lot easier, knowing the pressures of daily living are controlled by Him. wouldnt ask for anything else. also, just to add, W/we live in separate homes, but still in contact with one another multiple times a day.

yes, there are times where He will say for me to *chill and relax* even then, I still find myself asking permission to take my bike out a run, or go see friends. He will say I don't need to ask Him, but I personally feel better in doing so, for one, it lets Him know what His girl is doing always, more so in case He wishes to call upon me for anything.

it might not work for everyone, horses for courses as they

[08:37] яøυɢє:  say. all I know is, it works for U/us, and im sure if He felt anything needed to be changed, He would let me know #

[08:38] Vanni Cannoli: Great!

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: And yes, for some subs, that level of total control over even the minutia is not highly desired, they really don't know how to respond to life's demands without it

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: And this is nothing wrong with that at all

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: Everyone is different

[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: As long as care and trust and the best wishes are there, it's good

[08:39] яøυɢє: definitely, W/we have been together over 5.5 years now.

[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: nice Rouge :)

[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: See I could never deal with a TPE, I could never deal with being told how to live minutia in my life.

[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: My idea of submission is the "kinky personal assistant" role :P

[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: But that's not going to make others happy, so it's all good

[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks!

[08:42] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: dont ever say that ur kink is not goignt o make otheres happy ur not here to make otheres happy ur here for you sweetie theat is u have the this is not my kink but that is ok ur live ur life for you liek i say you do you boo boo liek some will have tpe and some will have it ware they pay for a weekend some peole have the assint it is all in what you want if you ive you life to plz others that rnt in ur dynamic they ur ntver going to be happy

[08:42] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt:   ☆*¨¨*:•Why???•:*¨¨*☆

[08:43] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: just my opion

[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: no that's not what I meant

[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: What I meant was my *style* of submission will not fit into how others see D/s or what they expect or want

[08:43] xasza: nods

[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: But for Mistress Tann and I it works extremely well

[08:43] xasza: same here Vanni

[08:44] Vanni Cannoli: or I should say, my style doesn';t fit everyone's views.  But we can say that of everyone.  Good point though!

[08:44] Vanni Cannoli: ok Vic, you have two Cs here so why don't you just go with both.  Go ahead please

[08:44] Vic: Thank you Vanni! If I may say, to me TPE is not about micromanagement, they could if they wanted to, but its about a Master being able to take control of any aspect of their slave's life at any time...there may be times the Master hands various parts of their slave's life back to them as they do not wish "hands on" control at that time. For a Master to do micro-managing all the time would be an enormous feat and not one I have seen any Master do for a great length of time.  Also on side note I do very much agree Vanni, TPE is a rarity to find in our world but for those of us who seek it (and there are not many who want it) and are blessed enough to live it (and it does take a lot of work), it is amazing!!!  #

[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: well said Vic!

[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: Agreed on all points, thank you!

[08:47] xasza: thnx Vanni, as Sir Griff said..........Master and i, we live the lifestyle 24/7 but not as in TPE. The M/s is there all the time but i am free to go where i want as long as i tell HI\im where i go. We "practice" M/s when ever during the day when Master feels like it and when He is at home, or when He or i ineed the controll when He is at home or reacheable by phone or skype. The "mood" can change by one look of HIs eyes or by me kneeling for HIm or what ever works at that time. And on the other hand we are a very loving and respectful couple smiles, blushes

[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: Right!

[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: again, everyone approaches a TPE differently

[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: my RL friend is not expected during the day, when she is managing the Starbucks, to be calling in and asking for permission to do things related to work

[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: but when she gets home, she just "lets go" and she's is 100% her Master's "slave"

[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: and she says it is so freeing to just give up all control

[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: because for her, it's a struggle and a huge use of energy to be in control at work, even though she does it very,very well

[08:49] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks for that comment!

[08:49] Vanni Cannoli: Solene, apologies for the delay, you are up please!

[08:49] Solene Hoisan: I think it can be a nice goal to aspire to. Every relationship is different and evolve. People's need change, the relationship need's will change too.  The trust and understanding gets deeper. The power exchange can be understood as being always there, but sometimes the intensity is at 1 sometimes at 10. I can be joking with my Master and its all banter and fun and 5 minute later he may request of me a very protocolar service and its all good. Its the fluctutation of it that is also nice. A good Master can read his sub and see when she needs some slack or when he needs to thighten the leash,  I believe. #

[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: Yes!

[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: I often say D/s is a dance

[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: One leads, the other follows, and each needs to respond to the dance

[08:50] Solene Hoisan: yes communication ;)

[08:51] Vanni Cannoli: Sir Griff, you have a C here.

[08:52] Griff Crowe: To me, TPE is having the control and leeway to control what I wish to and need to to make both of our lives easier and better. Utilizing her skills when they exceed my own, and my own when they exceed hers. But ultimately with my decision being the final say. So micromanaging, to me would be counter to that goal of ease of life.#

[08:52] Vanni Cannoli: Well said, Sir!

[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: That said, I would also point out that there are some submissives that *do* crave micromanagement. You obvouisly wouldn't be the kind of Dominant they are looking for, and You have Your hands full with that beauty at Your feet anyway, Sir! ;)

[08:53] Vic blushes again

[08:54] Griff Crowe: grins, "she's a wonder to have, that's for sure, thank you Vanni."

[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: Yay!

[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: Thank You, Sir.

[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: Sensi, you have a comment?

[08:54] Sensi: thank you vanni..  everything i read here is in accordance with ... there are many different types of TPE in which both have to work out .... there can be fixed rules that have to be followed but also ways that bring both forward it must not only be the control in the foreground ... but both know it is there ... i myself think i have lived it before and it means a lot of care responsibility ... surely the DOM can also use it but this means then a rule violation ... which surely must not always be visible immediately ... also the sub must keep own care my thought ... if one falls naturally completely into the TPE it can also become very difficult to find out there again ... because naturally also an emotional dependence happens which I find very dangerous ... as already mentioned it can also mean a crash ...

[08:55] Vanni Cannoli: Agreed there, Sensi

[08:56] Vanni Cannoli: I am sure that Vic, who has a lot of experience with TPE, never went into such a relationship quickly or without a lot of thought as to how this could affect her.

[08:56] Vanni Cannoli: Trust is 100% necessary.

[08:56] Vic: nods empahtically

[08:56] Vic: it takes time and a LOT of effort lol

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: well said Sensi and thanks Vic!

[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: Aylana, please!

[08:57] Aylana Stainsby: I can understand TPE suits some, but there are somethings where total is not total,  I would never ask permission to talk  to my children or use the bathroom, or have some water,  even at home,  but all subs and Dominants are different, you make it work for what your needs , we are all different with what we need but what is good in the community is we dont shame each other, we also accept each other and communicating the needs an desires with your partners is what is most important

[08:57] Aylana Stainsby: #

[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: Right!

[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: Some people really like "abrasive elbow worship," but for others it's a turn off

[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: so, if it's not our cup of tea, or elbow, don't do it

[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: and respect those that do

[08:59] Aylana Stainsby: nods, " door knob licking , nmk but i wont shame you for it "

[08:59] Vanni Cannoli: There is a dude at my RL club that likes to perform bloodplay on his bottom while wearing a skull mask

[09:00] Vanni Cannoli: it's freaky, but you know, its' their thing

[09:01] Vanni Cannoli: Ok so I have a question for the group regarding this.

[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: In looking at some websites and writing on this, some people create a literal contract about their TPE

[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: as far as what is allowed, not allowed, and how it can be modified.

[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: And in some, even the time frame

[09:02] Pip is online.

[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: does this negate the whole point of a TPE though?

[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: or is it a "safe" way to do it?

[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: CC you are up!

[09:03] Consuela Hypatia Caldwell: I think I've brought up that I'm writing a book with someone in sl who was by her mother and sister to be a sex worker. She was sexually conditioned as a child to do that work. She was introduced to BDSM when she was on high school while she was working as a sex worker for her sister. Over the years her experiences have gotten so extreme that she craves TPE, even with strangers. For her it's not the comfort of not having to make decisions, it's the high from the arousal she gets from total loss of control and the dangers of not having limits. She even states that she thought she'd be dead by now and "even sought that as the ultimate high." Like everyone here, I don't think this is a healthy or ethical state of affairs but I'm committed to helping her explore her life story while suspending my own judgment about it.

[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: Right that gets back to the "need" for it, but yeah, when deep want goes to "need andcan't live without" that gets dangerous.  Good point CC.

[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: Sir RB please

[09:04] RB Quinn: Communication MUST be paramount... literal contract or no.#

[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: 100% agreed Sir

[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: and there has to be some dynamic involved

[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: It can't be "too bad you broke your leg, fix my damn dinner, slave"

[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks!

[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: Sensi please

[09:07] Sensi: it always depends on the master if he has a contract .... i can say he needs a security or he wants to test it .... i haven't made good experiences myself ... because mostly the master was very unstable and needed a support sorry that i say this so cheekily .... in the RL it is of course a way that the master is always the master

[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: Of course!

[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: And I think a sub saying "that ain't in the contract!" is really sort of a brat move

[09:08] RB Quinn: But clarity can be very useful....

[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: Indeed, Sir!

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: I just meant "I don't have to do THAT as it's not in the contract" kind of ploy :P

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks Sensi! :)

[09:09] RB Quinn: grins and nods

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: Sir Griff, You are up, please!

[09:09] Griff Crowe: Vic and I neither one have used contracts in the past, however we are working on one for us together. For us, it's not a saftey issue, nor does it negate the TPE. It clarifies and lists out expectations, and some of the deeper core value rules of the dynamic. And serves as a physical reference to such for reminder down the road if needed. And as a tease to Vic, she is always talking about how she didn't read the fine print, if I throw a curveball at her.#

[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: Hee hee

[09:10] Vanni Cannoli: "Wait, Master...that's written in the back...in CRAYON!"

[09:10] Vic: lol

[09:10] Griff Crowe: glances over at his art supplies, "That could well be fore me lol

[09:10] Vanni Cannoli grins

[09:10] Vanni Cannoli: Sorry Vic!

[09:11] Vic: giggles

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks Sir!

[09:11] Vanni Cannoli: Brianne, you are up please

[09:11] Brianne: I think that the idea of the contract itself is the kink, or part of it.  Such a 'formality' can be interesting for the dynamic, doing something usually reserved for actual property or chattel.  And, in a practical sense, writing it would flush out expectations.  I suppose it would be great for people with a 'lawyer kink'.  Some might find that worse that Satan Worship though.  But, whatever works!  #

[09:12] Vanni Cannoli perks at "lawyer kink"

[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: Well said!

[09:12] Brianne: ty

[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: And yes, again it comes back to "what floats your boat is good, my boat is different"

[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks Brianne!

[09:13] Vanni Cannoli: Stevie you are up please

[09:17] StevieBlue: Well, I was thinking about my ex who had pretty much control of my real life as much as SL..and then I was thinking "Im free!".. but I really don't know what to do with myself..know, Im working at a sim, ..umm, signing up for this content, and prometing it, . Its like Im running around like a chicken with her head cut off.

[09:17] StevieBlue: I really need control

[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: nods

[09:17] StevieBlue: Im exhausted

[09:17] Sensi: aww

[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: for some subs not having that control is really hard

[09:18] StevieBlue: RL too

[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: just be careful Stevie, you are vulnerable

[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: I hope that works out *hugs*

[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: Thakns

[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: ok we have two more in the queue

[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: let's go to Sky please

[09:19] SkY: I enjoy having things in writing, but it has to be clear , black or white no grey   that way I know  what I may or may not do, and I feel happy that i can refer to it, #

[09:19] Vanni Cannoli: nods at Sky

[09:19] Vanni Cannoli: that's a good reason to have said contract

[09:19] Vanni Cannoli: again, it might not fit everyone's view, but if it works, outstanding

[09:19] Vanni Cannoli: Thanks for that!

[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: Ok, Sensi you have the last comment for the day, although you have a question?

[09:20] Sensi: i notice how many negative experiences i have had rl and want to bring this in a positive way i think and know that there will be a deep close bond sl of course i have no experience at all

[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: nods

[09:21] RB Quinn smiles and hugs his girl "And you shall, mine"

[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: Very nice!

[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: You have a good man there, Sensi :)

[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: Thank you!

[09:22] Vanni Cannoli: And thank you all for coming and sharing your thoughts on this topic!

[09:22] Vanni Cannoli: And please remember the tip jar on the bar to keep our happy home going!

[09:23] Brianne: Thank you Vanni, and thank you all for not charging me for all this wisdom you're dispensing.

[09:23] Vanni Cannoli: I think our Sunday morning discussions are tops, and it's because of the quality of people we get here