Koffee Klatch: 10-25-2020
Topic: Total Power Exchange
[08:07] Vanni Cannoli: Welcome to Koffee Klatch,
our Sunday morning kinky equivalent of a knitting circle
[08:08] Vanni Cannoli: Our discussions are in
text and are in the usual C/Q/R format, meaning type "C" if you wish
to make a comment, "Q" if you have a question, usually directed at a
person's comments, and "R" if you wish to retract either your C or
your Q. If a person has a question for a
specific person on what they said, just say "Q @ [name]"
[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: Now last week we talked
about "Consensual Non-Consent," what it means and how it's practiced.
[08:10] Vanni Cannoli: This week we move to what
some see as the final realization of CNC, or the "Total Power
Exchange", usually shortened to TPE
[08:11] Vanni Cannoli: You might also hear this
referred to as "living 24/7"
[08:12] Vanni Cannoli: With the basic idea being
that the D/s couple has come into a agreement of the Dominant having total
control over the submissive -- with the important proviso -- in the areas that
are agreed upon.
[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: So for example, unless
there were an agreement that the Dominant had control over the submissive's
work life, the Dominant could not say "quit your job"
[08:14] Vanni Cannoli: However, in all areas that
are agreed upon, the submissive agrees to give up control. They indeed have allowed the Dominant
"Consensual Non Consent" over those areas.
[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: As an example, a few years
ago I went to a presentation at a local BDSM expo on the 50's role play and
power exchange.
[08:15] Vanni Cannoli: I am sure that many of you
know that Master Jamesen and his girl Rhonda live out this kind of RP/TPE
[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: Anyway, the girl giving
the talk is definitely in a TPE with her Master. She doesn't work, she minds the house, and
she is not allowed to even buy a tube of lipstick for herself minus permission.
[08:16] Vanni Cannoli: That said, she can shop
for the house minus direct permission of what to buy (he trusts her to make the
right decisions)
[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: so they have a lot of
areas where she lives in a total power exchange to him.
[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: So now that I've said all
this, do Y/you live, or have tried to live, in this form of exchange?
[08:17] Vanni Cannoli: Does
it work well? What are plusses and
minuses?
[08:18] Vanni Cannoli: ok
Sir RB has a questions so let's go to Him first
[08:18] RB Quinn: Does it
have to be 24/7, Vanni? Could not the
TPE be something the couple agrees to be 'in' for only some certain times or
situations or days? And while I have the floor, I have not tried TPE *smiles* #
[08:19] Vanni Cannoli: I
think what the idea of 24/7 means that they live in the lifestyle all the time,
even when the very specific areas that the submissive has given totally to
their Dominant might be "out time"...like when my friend I talk about
goes to work at the Starbucks. She
doesn't have to call for permission to make a frap, for example. lol
[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: does
anyone else have a comment to Sir RB's question? Just go ahead and say your answer, no need
for a "c"
[08:20] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: Me and my Daddy live
the TPE in rl and
it works well for us some of the things
that it includes is asking to go out of the house asking to have sweets
when he is aat work making shure that i do my stuff i have to do
during the day when i am with him it
is more interactive as
such asking to use the restroom if i want food
or to do somthing
ect ... done
[08:20] Vanni Cannoli: was
that your comment?
[08:20] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: nods
[08:21] Vic: I have been in
TPE twice in my life rl and sl and I can say that TPE has no conditions,
timeline or otherwise, it is control over any aspect of my life at any
time. There is no more negotiating at
this point. #
[08:21] Vanni Cannoli: thank
you for that Kinsley
[08:22] Griff Crowe: For me,
at least in Vic and I's dynamic, we do have TPE, and it is 24/7. But it doesn;t
have to be a 24/7 use, if that makes sense. It really comes down to the fct
that She has given me total control over whatever I wish to influence, whene I
wish to influence. Even limits. I could cross that line, should I choice,
though that would be a poor choice on my part, as it would most likely trigger
her one right, the right to leave. So the control is at any time, though I may
not wish to excersice that control at all times. make sense I hope? #
[08:22] Vanni Cannoli: I
think, Sir RB, that it is really up to the people involved in the TPE
[08:22] RB Quinn: ok, ,ty,
Vanni
[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: When
I said "no c is necessary" I really meant if anyone wanted to answer
Sir RB's question
[08:23] RB Quinn: it depends
on the meaning of 'total', but please go on
[08:23] Vanni Cannoli: so if
everyone will please wait until I get to Y/you, thanks!
[08:24] Vic: if I may add as
well, if there was a timeline involved IMHO it is partial power exchange, not
total....# (done for real now lol)
[08:25] Vanni Cannoli:
Thanks!
[08:25] Vanni Cannoli:
Kinsley, did you say what you wanted to say, you have another C here
[08:26] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: I beleave that it dont
nessagary have to be 24/7 but
whiles in together works just was
well if that makes sence i have know
Masters that have married subs
and that they only have the the control
when they are together
[08:27] Vanni Cannoli:
Right, certainly TPE is not everyone's cup of tea. IN fact, in my RL kinky experience, this is
the far and away exception rather than the rule
[08:27] Vanni Cannoli: Most
people like to go to the club, get their S/M freak on, and then go home to
"normal" life
[08:28] Vanni Cannoli: I
mean I like hitting people, but I don't want them around all the time. And I"m already the slave of three cats,
I don't need a real life Master or Mistress, it would be redundent
[08:29] Vanni Cannoli: Ok
Sir Whyiman, you have a comment, please
[08:32] Whyiman: yes its
just a thought going back to the individual who could not buy a lipstick
without permission. From apersonal point of view i think that leve of control
could present problems..having to think and approve of every need of my sub
when she is perectly cpapable of looking after her own personal need. It is in
mho just a case of over control or micromanagement
[08:33] Vanni Cannoli nods
[08:33] Becky Summerland: it
does require a lot of active domination
[08:33] Vanni Cannoli: It
can certainly appear as that to outsiders, Sir.
But she really liked giving over that level of control to her Master.
[08:33] Vanni Cannoli: So it
always comes back to "Your Kink is OK, it's Just not My Kink"
[08:34] Vanni Cannoli: go
ahead kinsley
[08:35] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: Well as i have been in that typer of contorl
with my Daddy at times i do see that
point of it it isnt for
everyone and i know mulpile peole
that live the sma lifestyle
with tht totol power exchange
i ask for permsison to buy anything
and it owrks for us cuse that way
i am not spending my money on stuff i dont need
ect but i can see ware it cna be
bit hard if your not with ur sub
alot ok done
[08:36] Vanni Cannoli:
Actually there are some subs that get into the whole concept of "financial
domination" becuase they don't know how to deal with money, and that gives
them accountability. That said, great
care and trust has to be there before anything like that is done.
[08:36] Vanni Cannoli:
thanks!
[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: and
thank You Sir Whyiman!
[08:37] Vanni Cannoli: ok
Rouge, you are up!
[08:37] яøυɢє: thank you Vanni. I can honestly say, that I live
the lifestyle 24/7. ever since my rl Master claimed me as His own, and placed
the collar about my neck, I have surrendered all control to Him. be it general
day to day activities, to how I deal with finances etc. even when was able to
work, and having issues, He would always guide me to the best way to deal.
if anything, it makes my
life a lot easier, knowing the pressures of daily living are controlled by Him.
wouldnt ask for anything else. also, just to add, W/we live in separate homes,
but still in contact with one another multiple times a day.
yes, there are times where
He will say for me to *chill and relax* even then, I still find myself asking
permission to take my bike out a run, or go see friends. He will say I don't
need to ask Him, but I personally feel better in doing so, for one, it lets Him
know what His girl is doing always, more so in case He wishes to call upon me
for anything.
it might not work for
everyone, horses for courses as they
[08:37] яøυɢє: say. all I
know is, it works for U/us, and im sure if He felt anything needed to be
changed, He would let me know #
[08:38] Vanni Cannoli:
Great!
[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: And
yes, for some subs, that level of total control over even the minutia is not
highly desired, they really don't know how to respond to life's demands without
it
[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: And
this is nothing wrong with that at all
[08:39] Vanni Cannoli:
Everyone is different
[08:39] Vanni Cannoli: As
long as care and trust and the best wishes are there, it's good
[08:39] яøυɢє: definitely, W/we have been together over 5.5 years
now.
[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: nice
Rouge :)
[08:40] Vanni Cannoli: See I
could never deal with a TPE, I could never deal with being told how to live
minutia in my life.
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: My
idea of submission is the "kinky personal assistant" role :P
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli: But
that's not going to make others happy, so it's all good
[08:41] Vanni Cannoli:
Thanks!
[08:42] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: dont ever say that ur
kink is not goignt o make otheres happy ur not here to make otheres happy ur
here for you sweetie theat is u have the this is not my kink but that is ok ur
live ur life for you liek i say you do you boo boo liek some will have tpe and
some will have it ware they pay for a weekend some peole have the assint it is
all in what you want if you ive you life to plz others that rnt in ur dynamic
they ur ntver going to be happy
[08:42] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: ☆*¨¨*:•Why???•:*¨¨*☆
[08:43] Kιηѕlєץ Kιttєη ℜιƒt: just my opion
[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: no
that's not what I meant
[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: What
I meant was my *style* of submission will not fit into how others see D/s or
what they expect or want
[08:43] xasza: nods
[08:43] Vanni Cannoli: But
for Mistress Tann and I it works extremely well
[08:43] xasza: same here
Vanni
[08:44] Vanni Cannoli: or I
should say, my style doesn';t fit everyone's views. But we can say that of everyone. Good point though!
[08:44] Vanni Cannoli: ok
Vic, you have two Cs here so why don't you just go with both. Go ahead please
[08:44] Vic: Thank you
Vanni! If I may say, to me TPE is not about micromanagement, they could if they
wanted to, but its about a Master being able to take control of any aspect of
their slave's life at any time...there may be times the Master hands various
parts of their slave's life back to them as they do not wish "hands
on" control at that time. For a Master to do micro-managing all the time
would be an enormous feat and not one I have seen any Master do for a great
length of time. Also on side note I do
very much agree Vanni, TPE is a rarity to find in our world but for those of us
who seek it (and there are not many who want it) and are blessed enough to live
it (and it does take a lot of work), it is amazing!!! #
[08:45] Vanni Cannoli: well
said Vic!
[08:46] Vanni Cannoli: Agreed on all points, thank you!
[08:47] xasza: thnx Vanni, as Sir Griff said..........Master and i, we live
the lifestyle 24/7 but not as in TPE. The M/s is there all the time but i am
free to go where i want as long as i tell HI\im where i go. We
"practice" M/s when ever during the day when Master feels like it and
when He is at home, or when He or i ineed the controll when He is at home or
reacheable by phone or skype. The "mood" can change by one look of
HIs eyes or by me kneeling for HIm or what ever works at that time. And on the
other hand we are a very loving and respectful couple smiles, blushes
[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: Right!
[08:47] Vanni Cannoli: again, everyone approaches a TPE differently
[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: my RL
friend is not expected during the day, when she is managing the Starbucks, to
be calling in and asking for permission to do things related to work
[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: but
when she gets home, she just "lets go" and she's is 100% her Master's
"slave"
[08:48] Vanni Cannoli: and
she says it is so freeing to just give up all control
[08:48] Vanni Cannoli:
because for her, it's a struggle and a huge use of energy to be in control at
work, even though she does it very,very well
[08:49] Vanni Cannoli:
Thanks for that comment!
[08:49] Vanni Cannoli:
Solene, apologies for the delay, you are up please!
[08:49] Solene Hoisan: I
think it can be a nice goal to aspire to. Every relationship is different and
evolve. People's need change, the relationship need's will change too. The trust and understanding gets deeper. The
power exchange can be understood as being always there, but sometimes the
intensity is at 1 sometimes at 10. I can be joking with my Master and its all
banter and fun and 5 minute later he may request of me a very protocolar
service and its all good. Its the fluctutation of it that is also nice. A good
Master can read his sub and see when she needs some slack or when he needs to
thighten the leash, I believe. #
[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: Yes!
[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: I
often say D/s is a dance
[08:50] Vanni Cannoli: One
leads, the other follows, and each needs to respond to the dance
[08:50] Solene Hoisan: yes
communication ;)
[08:51] Vanni Cannoli: Sir
Griff, you have a C here.
[08:52] Griff Crowe: To me,
TPE is having the control and leeway to control what I wish to and need to to
make both of our lives easier and better. Utilizing her skills when they exceed
my own, and my own when they exceed hers. But ultimately with my decision being
the final say. So micromanaging, to me would be counter to that goal of ease of
life.#
[08:52] Vanni Cannoli: Well
said, Sir!
[08:53] Vanni Cannoli: That
said, I would also point out that there are some submissives that *do* crave
micromanagement. You obvouisly wouldn't be the kind of Dominant they are
looking for, and You have Your hands full with that beauty at Your feet anyway,
Sir! ;)
[08:53] Vic blushes again
[08:54] Griff Crowe: grins,
"she's a wonder to have, that's for sure, thank you Vanni."
[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: Yay!
[08:54] Vanni Cannoli: Thank
You, Sir.
[08:54] Vanni Cannoli:
Sensi, you have a comment?
[08:54] Sensi: thank you
vanni.. everything i read here is in
accordance with ... there are many different types of TPE in which both have to
work out .... there can be fixed rules that have to be followed but also ways
that bring both forward it must not only be the control in the foreground ...
but both know it is there ... i myself think i have lived it before and it
means a lot of care responsibility ... surely the DOM can also use it but this
means then a rule violation ... which surely must not always be visible
immediately ... also the sub must keep own care my thought ... if one falls
naturally completely into the TPE it can also become very difficult to find out
there again ... because naturally also an emotional dependence happens which I
find very dangerous ... as already mentioned it can also mean a crash ...
[08:55] Vanni Cannoli:
Agreed there, Sensi
[08:56] Vanni Cannoli: I am
sure that Vic, who has a lot of experience with TPE, never went into such a
relationship quickly or without a lot of thought as to how this could affect
her.
[08:56] Vanni Cannoli: Trust
is 100% necessary.
[08:56] Vic: nods
empahtically
[08:56] Vic: it takes time
and a LOT of effort lol
[08:57] Vanni Cannoli: well
said Sensi and thanks Vic!
[08:57] Vanni Cannoli:
Aylana, please!
[08:57] Aylana Stainsby: I
can understand TPE suits some, but there are somethings where total is not
total, I would never ask permission to
talk to my children or use the bathroom,
or have some water, even at home, but all subs and Dominants are different, you
make it work for what your needs , we are all different with what we need but
what is good in the community is we dont shame each other, we also accept each
other and communicating the needs an desires with your partners is what is most
important
[08:57] Aylana Stainsby: #
[08:58] Vanni Cannoli:
Right!
[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: Some
people really like "abrasive elbow worship," but for others it's a
turn off
[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: so,
if it's not our cup of tea, or elbow, don't do it
[08:58] Vanni Cannoli: and
respect those that do
[08:59] Aylana Stainsby:
nods, " door knob licking , nmk but i wont shame you for it "
[08:59] Vanni Cannoli: There
is a dude at my RL club that likes to perform bloodplay on his bottom while
wearing a skull mask
[09:00] Vanni Cannoli: it's
freaky, but you know, its' their thing
[09:01] Vanni Cannoli: Ok so
I have a question for the group regarding this.
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: In
looking at some websites and writing on this, some people create a literal
contract about their TPE
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: as
far as what is allowed, not allowed, and how it can be modified.
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: And
in some, even the time frame
[09:02] Pip is online.
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: does
this negate the whole point of a TPE though?
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: or is
it a "safe" way to do it?
[09:02] Vanni Cannoli: CC
you are up!
[09:03] Consuela Hypatia
Caldwell: I think I've brought up that I'm writing a book with someone in sl
who was by her mother and sister to be a sex worker. She was sexually conditioned
as a child to do that work. She was introduced to BDSM when she was on high
school while she was working as a sex worker for her sister. Over the years her
experiences have gotten so extreme that she craves TPE, even with strangers.
For her it's not the comfort of not having to make decisions, it's the high
from the arousal she gets from total loss of control and the dangers of not
having limits. She even states that she thought she'd be dead by now and
"even sought that as the ultimate high." Like everyone here, I don't
think this is a healthy or ethical state of affairs but I'm committed to
helping her explore her life story while suspending my own judgment about it.
[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: Right
that gets back to the "need" for it, but yeah, when deep want goes to
"need andcan't live without" that gets dangerous. Good point CC.
[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: Sir
RB please
[09:04] RB Quinn:
Communication MUST be paramount... literal contract or no.#
[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: 100%
agreed Sir
[09:04] Vanni Cannoli: and
there has to be some dynamic involved
[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: It
can't be "too bad you broke your leg, fix my damn dinner, slave"
[09:05] Vanni Cannoli:
Thanks!
[09:05] Vanni Cannoli: Sensi
please
[09:07] Sensi: it always
depends on the master if he has a contract .... i can say he needs a security
or he wants to test it .... i haven't made good experiences myself ... because
mostly the master was very unstable and needed a support sorry that i say this
so cheekily .... in the RL it is of course a way that the master is always the
master
[09:07] Vanni Cannoli: Of
course!
[09:08] Vanni Cannoli: And I
think a sub saying "that ain't in the contract!" is really sort of a
brat move
[09:08] RB Quinn: But
clarity can be very useful....
[09:08] Vanni Cannoli:
Indeed, Sir!
[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: I
just meant "I don't have to do THAT as it's not in the contract" kind
of ploy :P
[09:09] Vanni Cannoli:
Thanks Sensi! :)
[09:09] RB Quinn: grins and
nods
[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: Sir
Griff, You are up, please!
[09:09] Griff Crowe: Vic and
I neither one have used contracts in the past, however we are working on one
for us together. For us, it's not a saftey issue, nor does it negate the TPE.
It clarifies and lists out expectations, and some of the deeper core value
rules of the dynamic. And serves as a physical reference to such for reminder
down the road if needed. And as a tease to Vic, she is always talking about how
she didn't read the fine print, if I throw a curveball at her.#
[09:09] Vanni Cannoli: Hee
hee
[09:10] Vanni Cannoli:
"Wait, Master...that's written in the back...in CRAYON!"
[09:10] Vic: lol
[09:10] Griff Crowe: glances
over at his art supplies, "That could well be fore me lol
[09:10] Vanni Cannoli grins
[09:10] Vanni Cannoli: Sorry
Vic!
[09:11] Vic: giggles
[09:11] Vanni Cannoli:
Thanks Sir!
[09:11] Vanni Cannoli:
Brianne, you are up please
[09:11] Brianne: I think
that the idea of the contract itself is the kink, or part of it. Such a 'formality' can be interesting for the
dynamic, doing something usually reserved for actual property or chattel. And, in a practical sense, writing it would
flush out expectations. I suppose it
would be great for people with a 'lawyer kink'.
Some might find that worse that Satan Worship though. But, whatever works! #
[09:12] Vanni Cannoli perks
at "lawyer kink"
[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: Well
said!
[09:12] Brianne: ty
[09:12] Vanni Cannoli: And
yes, again it comes back to "what floats your boat is good, my boat is
different"
[09:12] Vanni Cannoli:
Thanks Brianne!
[09:13] Vanni Cannoli:
Stevie you are up please
[09:17] StevieBlue: Well, I
was thinking about my ex who had pretty much control of my real life as much as
SL..and then I was thinking "Im free!".. but I really don't know what
to do with myself..know, Im working at a sim, ..umm, signing up for this
content, and prometing it, . Its like Im running around like a chicken with her
head cut off.
[09:17] StevieBlue: I really
need control
[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: nods
[09:17] StevieBlue: Im
exhausted
[09:17] Sensi: aww
[09:17] Vanni Cannoli: for
some subs not having that control is really hard
[09:18] StevieBlue: RL too
[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: just
be careful Stevie, you are vulnerable
[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: I
hope that works out *hugs*
[09:18] Vanni Cannoli:
Thakns
[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: ok we
have two more in the queue
[09:18] Vanni Cannoli: let's
go to Sky please
[09:19] SkY: I enjoy having
things in writing, but it has to be clear , black or white no grey that way I know what I may or may not do, and I feel happy
that i can refer to it, #
[09:19] Vanni Cannoli: nods
at Sky
[09:19] Vanni Cannoli:
that's a good reason to have said contract
[09:19] Vanni Cannoli:
again, it might not fit everyone's view, but if it works, outstanding
[09:19] Vanni Cannoli:
Thanks for that!
[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: Ok,
Sensi you have the last comment for the day, although you have a question?
[09:20] Sensi: i notice how
many negative experiences i have had rl and want to bring this in a positive
way i think and know that there will be a deep close bond sl of course i have
no experience at all
[09:20] Vanni Cannoli: nods
[09:21] RB Quinn smiles and
hugs his girl "And you shall, mine"
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: Very
nice!
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: You
have a good man there, Sensi :)
[09:21] Vanni Cannoli: Thank
you!
[09:22] Vanni Cannoli: And
thank you all for coming and sharing your thoughts on this topic!
[09:22] Vanni Cannoli: And
please remember the tip jar on the bar to keep our happy home going!
[09:23] Brianne: Thank you
Vanni, and thank you all for not charging me for all this wisdom you're
dispensing.
[09:23] Vanni Cannoli: I
think our Sunday morning discussions are tops, and it's because of the quality
of people we get here
